so here goes, I was raised in a church that taught the rapture and believed in it until I was in may late 30's, when I began to study the Word for myself instead of what I was taught from some pulpit..... that changed everything... for one... the word Rapture does not even exist in the texts either in Hebrew, Greek or English translations...
here is what the Word says....
I Thess.4;13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.(subject)
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.( YHWH calls those who have died are with Him, they are there already)
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.( those left alive at the end of the age, don't change that fact)
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout( same word in Hebrew as the feast we just kept), with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:(they already are in their non-blood bodies) 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.( we will be changed into our non-blood bodies)
these verse are not about anything except the subject, what happens to our bodies when we die, not the rapture....
Matthew 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
in Mark 13: 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
5And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
7And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
8For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
(here Yashua goes through from that time to the end, and not once does he mention taking his church out of the way... he tells everything, but its not there in any place... but rather states that YHWH shortens the time so that even the elect isn't brought to death during the very end of days... )
Luke 17: 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32Remember Lot's wife.
33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
(these words speak of those taken in death, not taken away to safety...)
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
I Corinthians 15: 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I pray you find the answers to your questions, I know this YHWH is faithful and if you ask Him for understanding and then look to the Word , He will teach you from it...
The fact that the term rapture is not in the Bible is not indicative of anything. Neither is trinity; millennium; millennial reign; Christian; original sin, and many other common terms used today. Does that mean that none of those doctrines or concepts are accurate, merely because the terms for them are not explicitly found in Scripture? No, of course not. It doesn't mean that the ideas or doctrines are flawed, just that the terms we use as a shorthand way of expressing certain concepts may not exist as such in Scripture. Doctrine is built by studying and putting together line upon line, precept upon precept. It is no different for the teaching about the rapture. That's why we need others who are more learned, who are more mature and who have studied longer to disciple us and to help us grow. Enlightenment in deeper areas is also part of the work of the Holy Spirit; not everything is laid out in plain language that anyone can read and understand. Even Christ stated that he spoke to them in parables, "that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." Mark 4:12
"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little...." Isaiah 28:9,10
IP, I thought this was in order to share our views... this was a request of a member, I am not going here to engage in argument, if you are then you will be doing it all alone... thank for scriptural put down...that's a wonderful use of the Word of God.. what a scholar you have shown yourself to be... NOTE: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=310
so instead of coming here to jump on my views, perhaps you could begin the thread to share your own..
Last edited by Anonymous on September 23rd, 2009, 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Armorbearer--With all due respect....You didn't think you were going to post a topic such as this and expect no one to say anything or if they had it would have to agree with you.
Now come on we are fair and balanced here where we are all free to express our opinions. The risk you took by expressing yours was that someone might step on your toes. I think there are many readers on this forum that would agree with me.
Actually I have liked reading many of your post in the past and am quite surprised you took offense to someone challenging you on this.
If no one could state an opposing view in this forum then it wouldn't be fun. So again I sincerely mean this with all due respect lets not turn this into the MSNBC of forums.
GO BUCs someone ask us to post our views, without argument so they could glean from them, that a member chooses to take that opportunity to use scripture for no other reason than to belittle another member, shows the heart and the fruit of that member... and thank you too for your input..
I certainly didn't feel the need to rub it in everyone faces when they looked for a rapture this week and it didn't come even though, I don't believe in, I call it restraint...and respect, perhaps some of you should try it some times...
If it is a private discussion, then maybe the forum would be better served if it was done either in private messages or emails. If it is going to be posted though, then there should be a notice somewhere to that effect, preferably at the beginning in large letters and/or in another color so that it stands out. I thought that this was merely another thread in which anyone's understanding or opinion on the issue was welcomed. Unfortunately I don't have time to read every post in every thread, so if this is a continuation of something else in a different thread, one in which I am (or anyone else is) unwelcome, then you'll have to do something at the outset to make that clear.
Aside from that, my post was not the beginning of an argument. It merely was my understanding about the subject at issue. Just because I don't agree with something that another person says on a particular issue, it does not mean that I am "jump[ing] on [their] views" or engaging in "scriptural put down." I thought the idea of the forum was to share thoughts and ideas, and if that is correct, then I do not understand how doing that is engaging in anything untoward. I seek whenever possible neither to offend nor to be offended. I believe that Jesus' words in Matthew 24 are an admonition that we walk carefully, in love, because to do otherwise opens a door for the enemy, especially in these perilous times. Therefore, if you are offended for some reason, then I truly am sorry; that was not my intent. There is no ad hominym attack contained in the post but merely my position on the issue. Because of that, it never occurred to me that there was something improper or offensive about it.
"And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt. 24:10-13
IP, please, this is not a private discussion and your comments were about me, not the subject... please read the link I provided and yes, give your understanding as requested for this one who is searching...but as she requested start your own thread to do so..and if you posting about babes in milk was not meant as an insult to my walk, then, I did misunderstand...and I am sorry for that..and I notice you again are using scripture indicating I that I possibly hate you??? I have prayed for you every day for two weeks, if you think it out of hate, then you need to rethink..........
This argument that the rapture is not in the bible is a joke! The rapture concept "IS" mentioned several times in the bible directly and through models and typologies, and so is the word for rapture, but it's in the language that part of the bible is written in.
Not to sound too harsh, but am I missing something here? I thought this was obvious to those who frequent bible prophecy related forums.
well thank everyone, you have proved that we cannot discuss present for someone a view you disagree with, your opinions are more important to you all than allowing someone to search your opinions for themselves to see what and why your believe based on the word...I do hope we have been able to not argue, for I will not, these are my views, I stick by them, I pray JEM can prayfully decide what she think YHWH is saying in the Word...God Bless you one and all.... YES YOU MISSED IT>>> PERHAPS IS YOU CLICKED ON THE LINK I PROVIDED YOU WOULD HAVE DONE AS OUR DEAR SISTER ASKED>>>>>